Rubble wip

30 replies [Last post]
metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

Im in the middle of creating some assets for a UT3 map that im going to be working on for fun in the near future.

Nothing special just a bit of rubble...

PolyCounts are:-

Highpoly = 725287 tri's (after optimisation in Polycruncher)
Lowpoly = 2369 tri's

Im going to start texturing tonight and will post some more stuff then.

Comments and critique are more than welcome!

Thanks for looking Smiling

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

As you can see i have started the texturing and im quite pleased with how its turning out Smiling

There is still loads more work to do with regards to the grunge etc. but i have a good idea of what i want to do with that aspect of the texture...I shall tackle it post-haste!

Comments and Critique will be most humbly received.

Thanks for looking Smiling

(To view a higher res. version of each screenie, open it in a new window or tab)

Crystal's picture
Posts: 2

Looks good other than that round 'rock' make it look more organic not so much like a ball.Thumbs Up

Riki's picture
Posts: 1257

Hey Metalliandy,

I like it man, and I do know how valuable modular rubble piles can be. I cant tell you how many times we used the same 3 piles in several different midway games. I'm sure we may even see those piles for years to come.

I would like to suggest a trick that I remember stumbling across a while back. Try adding 2 noise modifiers on the high res models. Make one of them for very small fractal noise detail, and another one for larger breakups in uniformity. I think this will add tons with the generated normal and AO maps and will also help what crymicbab was talking about.

Try it and let us know if it helps, it will take some tweaking to get it right.

Keep up the hard work,

-Riki

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey guys,

Thanks for the kind words Smiling

@Crystal
Done and done!
I tweaked it a little so it looks less ball like...thanks for pointing it out, i don't know how i missed that :S

@Riki,

Thanks for the suggestion!
I tried what you said, though it was rather more difficult than i expected (hence the time of my reply) because Blender doesn't, as of yet, have a noise modifier.
I had to trail the "internets" to find something similar, but luckily there was a python script that adds vertex noise and as if by magic (and 2 or so hrs of head scratching...lol) it worked like a treat...especially on the rebar. Laughing out loud
The effect is rather subtle but i think it adds something great to the final texture.Thumbs Up

In between all this grooviness, i have also done another grunge pass and added some highlighting to the rebar and chain.

As always comments and critique are welcome.

Now for the Normal and Spec. ...

Thanks for looking Laughing out loud

Riki's picture
Posts: 1257

Ahh right, I forgot you use Blender Smiling

Yeah it does look like it adds just that extra level of breakup.

Once you have this pile done, you could easily make 2 more piles using the same exact textures, just rearrange the pieces and bake out a separate AO map for each, then pack the 3 AOs into...well I'm sure you know what I mean from the Materials video, Sticking out tongue

-Riki

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey Guys,

I have imported the model into UE and im quite pleased with the result Laughing out loud

@Riki,

That was my original intention Laughing out loud
The only problem is that due to my computer not having enough ram i had to delete all the unseen faces on the HP so at the moment its not really possible with the current model:S...also though the texture is 2048, the res. is not as high as i would have liked it to be because each part of the model has its own UV space....for something that will be seen as often as this i don't think the quality is quite high enough (the rebar and concrete are quite blurry etc.)

For the last few months i have been hitting my ram limit constantly on almost everything i have made, which makes Blender and Silo very unresponsive and tediously slow to use (what i would do for an extra 600mb Sticking out tongue)
On a good note i should be upgrading to 64bit Vista and 8gb of ram within the next month or so, after that the sky's the limit!

I think im going to call this one finished, put it down to experience and work on another set of 3 but with a few less poly this time, better forward planning and a more efficient UV layout that is more suited for this type of asset.

Altogether i had loads of fun with this model and now im also getting quite familiar with UE so the time has not be wasted IMHO.

Next time i think i will do a little more sculpting too.

Thanks for looking Laughing out loud

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

I have bitten the bullet and ordered Vista Home Premium 64Bit along with another 4GB of Ram.

They will both arrive tomorrow so i should be able to start this asset again by Sunday at the latest and i will post with more progress as soon as im up and running. Laughing out loud

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

I couldn't wait to get started on this again...Its 2:40am and i have just finished the first pass on the hp dirt.

I'm amazed what a difference using 64bit has had on my workflow...i was just able to get on with it rather than waiting for my computer to run out of memory and its so nice not having to calculate whether i could give the model another level of subdivision...im really glad i made the switch Smiling

*LEVEL UP!* (insert your own sound effect here)

Anyway...enough of my rambling fanboyism...

Comments and critique are welcome as we start round two.

Thanks for looking Laughing out loud

Jet Pilot's picture
Posts: 153

hey, i like your rubble pile. i have a few suggestions if your interested. if not skip this next part.

1. The textures seem to blend in with each other too much. its really hard to see where the rubble stops and the ground begins.

2. This model is too bland. and some large chunks sitting/laying across the pile, when i say large i mean (.5-.3333) the size of the complete models size.

3. Maybe add some glass pieces in there.. something to add some reflection and highlights to it, so when people rotate around it they get a really nice glare from the lights.

Hope that helps

jet

Environment Artist Portfolio

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey Jet Pilot,

Thnaks for the reply Smiling

Quote:

hey, i like your rubble pile. i have a few suggestions if your interested. if not skip this next part.

Thanks for the kind words...im always glad to hear suggestions that can improve my technique!

Quote:

1. The textures seem to blend in with each other too much. its really hard to see where the rubble stops and the ground begins.

Agreed and as im starting the model from scratch again i intend to change lots...the last time round one of the reasons that i didn't blend the dirt with the rubble is im unsure what surface the underlying surface will have in the map but i can change that as soon as i decide Smiling

Quote:

2. This model is too bland. and some large chunks sitting/laying across the pile, when i say large i mean (.5-.3333) the size of the complete models size.

I must admit it does look a little sparse, but thanks fully nothing that cant be changed in this incarnation.

The only thing im worried about is as these are meant to be sprayed around the map players will start to notice that they are the same (there are going to be 3 in total)...I will see if i can model something large and generic that will fit nicely.

Quote:

3. Maybe add some glass pieces in there.. something to add some reflection and highlights to it, so when people rotate around it they get a really nice glare from the lights.

Nice idea! i never though of adding something like that......it shall be done post haste Laughing out loud

Does anyone else have any ideas for something that i can add in the pile before i finalise the assets?
They do say that verity is the spice of life...im sure this applies to computer games also....

Thanks for looking Smiling

Jet Pilot's picture
Posts: 153

your welcome... but yea make the larger pieces separately so you can move them around and mix and match their locations on all the instances you put your rubble pile.. this should help from keeping it repetitive.

Environment Artist Portfolio

Riki's picture
Posts: 1257

Thats a great suggestion Jet about the glass pieces. That also makes me want to try and and see how it would come out Sticking out tongue Looks like Metalliandy is on it!

-Riki

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey Guys,

Im sorry that i haven't updated this in a while, but i have run into a little problem :S

After optimising everything in polycruncher and importing into to blender or silo there are loads of faces missing on the mesh. This happens with all the meshes whether they are optimised @20/40/60 or 75%.

I don't suppose anyone have any ideas how this can be fixed...maybe this is an exportation error from polycruncher?

Until i get this fixed im at a complete standstill :S

Also does anyone know of a program that can make it possible to view .TGA in windows vista 64bit explorer?

Thanks for looking Smiling

Jet Pilot's picture
Posts: 153

are you sure the faces are missing? Try dropping an normals modifier on it and turn flip OFF and unify ON... then update me on what you find

Environment Artist Portfolio

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey Jet Pilot,

Thanks for the reply Smiling

I assume the steps you have suggested are for Max but unfortunately i use blender. :S

I have tried flipping the normals to no avail and am not really sure what can be done now but filling them all in manually.

Attached is a screenie that shows the holes.

Any ideas?

Thanks for looking Smiling

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

After doing some tests with the hp models i came to the decision that you cant notice the holes when the normal map is rendered so i started once again last night Laughing out loud

I have added the glass as suggested and also some chainlink fence pieces to give the models a little more verity.

Comments a Critique are welcome.

Thanks for looking Smiling

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

Sorry for the double post, but it seems you cant add images when editing :S

I have changed a few things such as adding more glass, tweaking it's location and finished the lp model...though i think i will end up changing the chainlink lp bits to plane's.

Now for the texturing Laughing out loud

Comments and critique are welcome.

Thanks for looking Smiling

Riki's picture
Posts: 1257
metalliandy;707 wrote:

Hey Jet Pilot,
Thanks for the reply Smiling

I assume the steps you have suggested are for Max but unfortunately i use blender. :S

I have tried flipping the normals to no avail and am not really sure what can be done now but filling them all in manually.

Attached is a screenie that shows the holes.

Any ideas?
Thanks for looking Smiling

In that situation I would probably fill the holes with a cap holes or something and then make sure the smoothing groups matched. Its hard to describe something that would translate to blender but that would I would do in max.

Hey all,

metalliandy;715 wrote:

Sorry for the double post, but it seems you cant add images when editing :S

I have changed a few things such as adding more glass, tweaking it's location and finished the lp model...though i think i will end up changing the chainlink lp bits to plane's.

Now for the texturing Laughing out loud

Comments and critique are welcome.

You can add images and remove them in the edit, click edit and then click go advanced, and in there you can "manage attachments" and upload more.

I really like how this is coming out, the AO should really help settle the stuff together. I can imagine shoving these things into each other and into corners and so on, it can really help out when breaking up 90 degree angles.

Good work mate, keep it up!

-Riki

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey all,

Riki wrote:

In that situation I would probably fill the holes with a cap holes or something and then make sure the smoothing groups matched. Its hard to describe something that would translate to blender but that would I would do in max.

Thanks for the reply Smiling

99% of the time i can translate other 3d application features and tutorials into Blender quite well so i don't mind when people explain how things work in their native program, so its cool if you want to talk Max Smiling

Riki wrote:

You can add images and remove them in the edit, click edit and then click go advanced, and in there you can "manage attachments" and upload more.

Great stuff. next time it shall be done.

Riki wrote:

I really like how this is coming out, the AO should really help settle the stuff together. I can imagine shoving these things into each other and into corners and so on, it can really help out when breaking up 90 degree angles.

Thanks for the kind words Smiling

Im about 50% done on the diffuse and then i can get started with the AO, spec, normal and then UE.

I have made the other 2 models in the set and i just have to remove all the unseen faces before i export them into unreal.

Comments and Critique will be most humbly received.

Thanks for looking Smiling

Riki's picture
Posts: 1257

I like it a lot, its definitely something I would never want to step in! Looks Dangerous!

-Riki

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey guys,

@Riki,
Thanks for the kind words Smiling

Sorry for the lack of updates.
Basically the reason is that because of a bug in blender that wont allow me to group select visible faces without selecting the occluded faces also, meaning that i have to optimise the models manually as everything is already UV'd...normally this isn't so bad, but because of the amount of faces in the un-optimised mesh it means that i have had to remove about 20k tri's individually which has taken about 3 hrs per mesh.

Though that said this bug has been assigned to blenders lead dev. Ton to fix, so it should be arriving soon (i hope).

The diffuse and normal are done as are the AO bakes and im just setting up the material in unreal so i should have something more to show soon Smiling

Unfortunately there are no pics in this post as im on my laptop.

I will post back as soon as i have something more Smiling

ghizme's picture
Posts: 8

looks realistic, good work!

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Thank you for the kind words ghizme!

I am still working on the rubble sets, but have ran into a few problems that are still being worked out.
I will post an update of the sets as soon as i can Smiling

ghizme's picture
Posts: 8

did you painted the textures?
If, yes, I repeat what I said!
Keep it up, and I hope great details on this scene!

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188

Hey ghizme,

Thanks again.

The textures are mostly photo sourced...with lots of adjustments in Photoshop.

I you take a look at the Next Gen Texturing DVD you will have a good idea how i did it. There is some really great information in there.
Man i love that DVD!

ghizme's picture
Posts: 8

I'll take it a note! When I can buy it!
Thanks for u now by the tip!

Rikimaru03's picture
Posts: 6

quick question. when it comes to say like the chains, do you unwrap only one and then just copy it over? are they all instanced? and are they full links? or do you delete the polys that are underneath the rubble pile?

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188
Rikimaru03;1211 wrote:

quick question. when it comes to say like the chains, do you unwrap only one and then just copy it over? are they all instanced? and are they full links? or do you delete the polys that are underneath the rubble pile?

I modelled one link, created UV's and then duplicated the object via Blenders Array modifier which allowed me to add many instances of the link that were all UV'd to the same space. This is a mega time saver if you are producing lots of the same object.
Once i was happy with the placement of the links i then assigned the chain to a curve which was used to position the chain wherever the curve was placed.
Once that was all done i applied the modifier and added textures to the chain.

Normally i would pack the UV's before adding textures so each link would have its own UV space to stop any future problems with AO maps, but for this piece i didn't because i was using a different method for AO.

Once the model is all finished i then removed any faces that couldn't be seen as there is no point in having polys that are not visible.

I hope that helps Smiling

Rikimaru03's picture
Posts: 6
metalliandy;1212 wrote:

I modelled one link, created UV's and then duplicated the object via Blenders Array modifier which allowed me to add many instances of the link that were all UV'd to the same space. This is a mega time saver if you are producing lots of the same object.
Once i was happy with the placement of the links i then assigned the chain to a curve which was used to position the chain wherever the curve was placed.
Once that was all done i applied the modifier and added textures to the chain.

Normally i would pack the UV's before adding textures so each link would have its own UV space to stop any future problems with AO maps, but for this piece i didn't because i was using a different method for AO.

Once the model is all finished i then removed any faces that couldn't be seen as there is no point in having polys that are not visible.

I hope that helps Smiling

to an extent... one comment though. you say you texture first, THEN you removed the polygons that werent visible, thus deleting those polys and those UV's. wouldnt that just leave blank spots on your texture page then?

metalliandy's picture
Posts: 3188
Rikimaru03;1213 wrote:

to an extent... one comment though. you say you texture first, THEN you removed the polygons that werent visible, thus deleting those polys and those UV's. wouldnt that just leave blank spots on your texture page then?

Hey Rikimaru03,

I can see why this would be confusing :S

The UV's for pieces of the rubble were all overlaid and the UV map was the same for all 3 models, so deleting faces would not effect the texture because it was done before the faces were removed and as the texture was the same for all the models it was only the UV's that would be changed on each individual model so the texture would remain the same, thus no missing faces on the texture.

I hope that makes sense...

If you take a look at the Unreal Materials DVD Riki explains the process much better Smiling