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P90 Gun, heavily modded "savage hunter"
March 28, 2011 - 10:00pm
- 9620 reads
The p90 savage hunter is actually an airsoft gun that has been fitted with extra rails and an m4 mag. It looks interesting and challenging, and I have not modeled many guns so I figured I would give this a go.Second 100% subD model ever. Here is a WIP so far of the handle. I tried to keep most of it one mesh, since thats the way it is in real life resulting in hectic topology.
WIP of the handle
Wires
Reference
Showing the handles relationship to the overall gun
March 29, 2011 - 12:20am
#1
Update, silencer WIP 
Its a mixture of two silencer types from different P90 savage hunters I found. Namely the cap end from the left reference, and the holes from the right reference.
Sick p90 ref 
Its looking sweet so far. Keep up the good work!
-Jeremy-
This is great choice for modeling. I can tell even in this early stage that this will be awesome. I really like that handle. Can't wait for more.
I can already see that this will be really awesome! Keep us updated. 
Wow thanks for all the positive reception guys, that really encourages me.
@Ceribral, thanks for the encouragement I really appreciate it.
@Gundark, thanks. I hope to have it complete by weeks end.
@Joshflighter, will do thanks!
NITRO Rail module sytem WIP
reference
It seems there are a couple different versions of this rail system, the one I used for my reference mainly is longer horizontally, but I kept it shorter more like the one on some of the original pictures I posted. Also the capsule shaped cutouts on the bottom of the cylinder for the module are way too long, I need to fix that for sure.
Wires
Great modeling! I must say. Good job yet again.
I agree, great reference, good choice of gun (really like that it even has a wire in there), and great modeling. That handle is hella dense.
@Joshflighter, "great modeling!" awesome, thanks im trying my best
@robert.nally, thank you thank you!
P90 body update. This part was pretty tough to do, I think I did two quick approaches first that failed, and finally got it right on the third time. I think the problem with the first 2 attempts was that I didnt keep it basic enough to begin with, their are alot of complicated curves and shapes on the body and if you have too much going on to early its easy to break things and become overwhelmed harder to get the relationship between parts correct.
The funny part is If I were just doing a p90 regular, I would be about done right now but I still have alot to do!
Reference
Going to make a seperate post on this, but guys are having these dense wires for the highpoly a problem? Im getting mixed feed back about it. On polycount everyone seems fine with it, but on Next Gen Hard Surface some people say they are too dense. I agree they are definitley dense, but some of these things need to be modeled as a single object like the gun body and the handle. I keep an eye on what is necessary and what isnt, but it still ends up being dense because every loop I look at is needed to keep a quad, make part of the objects silhouette, or used to harden an edge.
One thing that would definitley improve the mesh density would be floating the bolts for a bake, the only problem is I dont know how to bake to a LP yet (will learn soon), but in the meantime I need this to render nicely for a school admissions piece. It obviously wont look correct if my render has floating bolts on it.
Thanks
There is nothing wrong with a model being to dense, unless it effects the outcome. Personally I think they are just being nit-picky.
Although, do what that guy said on poly count about the hard edges. It will help a lot.
I like it so far.
Btw, this is my fav weapon. Ever since I saw it in Stargate.
I was actually just wondering this myself. If I was modeling this myself I would have tried to avoid having it get that dense. In my previous experience modeling hard suface high poly stuff, having that many wires will often lead me to pinching problems in other areas of the mesh and i don't see it in your render, but I would be curious if you have encountered that at all. That would be my main reason, the other would be, like you said, it can just be difficult to work with. Also, if this was for a Low poly mesh all along I definitely would have floated the bots and things or you could even have just textured them on there (see nDo). I honestly would be surprised if a school admissions rep would notice that they were floating on your render and when I say floating I would mean shoved in or vert snapped. That's also how I would have tried to model it, I would just find the larger shapes, model them, and then vert snap at the connecting points or collapse edges or something to keep edge loops from running through out the model. I don't know if that's entirely correct though and I would be interested in hearing other's opinions on that as well.
For baking high to low I would check out xNormal and I also try to use zbrush as much as possible because I like my results with it more, but I can't say for sure it would work with something like this, depends on your low poly mesh topology.
Hey dude -
The rule is keep it light unless it needs it. Sounds like common sense - but at at the end of the day, certain forms demand a higher res mesh for smoothing and ang you can talk your way out of pinching with higher densities of smoothing. If this is a game asset, it is worth keeping a 1/2 or 1/4 low res (Usually your base mesh) for eventually sampling and rotating for each part.
There is a lot of 'in house' snobbery about meshes being a certain way but the thin edge of the wedge is:
*Model how you feel comfortable as long as the results are as clean as you want
*Do edge loops late, keep checking back against low res mesh - this is where you spend your time. This is where all your mistakes are made good - and you 'learn' about your model
*Go large with UV's - using 1/4, 1/8, 1/2 wherever you can - add small tabs to your low res mesh when sampling to avoid seams
Great gun - great concept - keep it up fella!
Hey dude -
The rule is keep it light unless it needs it. Sounds like common sense - but at at the end of the day, certain forms demand a higher res mesh for smoothing and ang you can talk your way out of pinching with higher densities of smoothing. If this is a game asset, it is worth keeping a 1/2 or 1/4 low res (Usually your base mesh) for eventually sampling and rotating for each part.
There is a lot of 'in house' snobbery about meshes being a certain way but the thin edge of the wedge is:
*Model how you feel comfortable as long as the results are as clean as you want
*Do edge loops late, keep checking back against low res mesh - this is where you spend your time. This is where all your mistakes are made good - and you 'learn' about your model
*Go large with UV's - using 1/4, 1/8, 1/2 wherever you can - add small tabs to your low res mesh when sampling to avoid seams
Great gun - great concept - keep it up fella!
The question is, do you want to make details with normal maps, or do you want to model it accurately just with mesh? If you go with the mesh, then you can't simplify it enough ( 3-4 edge loops at most as I see it).
It's a beautiful model and I love it.
Thanks for the comments/critiques/encouragement everyone it really helps me to push myself, thank you! Here is the latest WIP, hopefully I will earn forum spotlight from this thread.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wwarriorww/p90x.png
Done. Softened edges around the grip quite a bit. Think its pretty much done besides some tweaks. Let me know what you think everyone good or bad. Also chose not to model the battery under the handle because I want it to look like a gun not an airsoft one.
Yes!!!! You made it as expected. Great work.
Nice job with this man
Would you consider uploading the images to Eat3d attachment service so i can promote please?
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome render man! Maybe a bit to much shine on it, but still, lovely!
You are going to make a texture for this right?
Nice job with this man
Would you consider uploading the images to Eat3d attachment service so i can promote please?
Sure! I attached it to the original post, does it come up on your end?
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome render man! Maybe a bit to much shine on it, but still, lovely!
You are going to make a texture for this right?
Yeah I would love to but I still need to learn to bake HP to LP first and unwrapping. Doing that soon.
Nice job with this man
Would you consider uploading the images to Eat3d attachment service so i can promote please?
Sure! How do I go about doing so?
Awesome!
Its easy to do Under the text editor there is a file attachments dropdown...just upload the images to there and one they are all uploaded just delete the imageshack ones from the post.
The images on the first post can be transferred directly by editing the post, grabbing the URL and using the Attach image function>remote URL
really cool stuff, and your process was super fast. Be prepare to swear a lot for the baking process lol!
Hey, I know this is kind of late, but every time I see it.. well it bothers me:
(It's not in you're wireframe either.)
Promoted
Hey, I know this is kind of late, but every time I see it.. well it bothers me:
(It's not in you're wireframe either.)
Taking a look at that now, not sure why it only shows up during render.
@metalliandy, thanks for spotlight :)
First bake ever, let me know how this test bake looks before I proceed. Was going to fix the whole gun on a 2048x2048. Just normal and AO. Wasted UV space and what not I'm aware, the full gun is going on a 2048x2048. Left light grey is the HP, right dark grey with gloss is the LP. Any good?
The bake is turning out great man! Love to see the rest of this! Keep going.
The bake looks good, but whats your texture size? I would suggest maybe fully laying out UVs and then baking it to get a more accurate representation of what it would look like. If your test bake is a 2048 or 1024 with all that space used up, it looks good, but you'll probably want to make sure it will still look good at the final resolution you intend it to be at.
also realize this is a bit late, but i would maybe consider making the wire a bit thicker, that's just me.
The bake is a good start
There is some skewing in places though, which you should try and fix really.
At a glance it looks like either the UVs are not uniform or that when baking the normals are being averaged along the length of the faces which is causing an inconsistent bake.
Adding a loop at each end should fix that
@metailliandy: fixed the skewing thanks.
Here is another test bake, I think every piece is looking good enough to start packing the whole thing into a 2048x2048.
Great Job on the weapon thus far! Keep chopping away at it
(Note - Please use the attatchment system provided by eat3d. Its located at the bottom left of the comment box in big white letters that say:
Please use this.)
Thanks!
-Jeremy-
Anyways, here is another issue I am uncertain of. I
I unwrapped each object separately e.g. the gun magazine, body, handle are all separate objects and I did a UV unwrap on each one. I will skip using the eat 3d file attachment for these pictures since they are nothing spotlight worthy. Now I am going to do an unwrap modifier on the whole thing and begin packing them into the 0-1 UV space. However, I feel that mine looks incredibly messy compared to some flats I have seen. And this is after optimizing the LP to the best of my ability getting the total tri count to the low 5k range. When unwrapping I was paying close attention to seams as well for smoothing groups.
Here is an idea what the individual unwraps look like per object.
Here is the unwrap for all objects to begin packing into UV space
Am I doing it incorrectly?
EditHere is my WIP of packing it so far . 
@Ceribral, thanks. Yes its very much "chopping" away at this project. Since its my first time ever to UV bake /make LP/ and texture I am not only having to learn how to do these things, but also try and develop a workflow. Progress feels very slow all of a sudden after I finished doing the SubD model.
You should prob. consider mirroring half the gun rather than unwrapping everything uniquely, as you will get a much higher texel resolution
Also, remember that if you are adding smoothing groups in 3d space, you should split the same edges in UV space so that you dont get a seam in the normal map
@Metalliandy, Concerning the UV splits and smoothing groups. Thats what I was attempting to accomplish, adding a UV split where there were major smoothing group changes. I was more or less copying the technique shown in the Fountain Part 2 where Rikki only adds basic UV splits, and then adds an edit poly modifier on top of the LP and makes everything one smoothing group. From here he goes in and adds control loops that makes really nice gradients, and the final result has gradients that look as if they were turbosmoothed with only 1 smoothing group for the whole object saving verts for game engines.
Hows this?
a couple of little details for this kind of thing - really just some stuff I picked up along the way so take anything you find relevant and throw the rest away!
3rd person/render model -
Try and keep your pixel density the same over the whole model. It seems less here on your bigger bits and really you should be aiming for that grid to be a bit closer over the whole model.
You can achieve this several ways -
*On your symmetrical cylinders - silencer for instance - only bake a quarter rather than half or whole
*This also goes for circular details
*Only bake half of the receiver/trigger/grip and clip
*Try and run your seams down the center - the more visible seams there are the more room for error. It doesn't matter if your uv's are not totally square or very slightly stretched- as you are baking it
1st person/game model
*Weight your pixel density to be higher towards the top rear of the gun, concentrating over the stock and into the sight
*By the time you get to the silencer, you can be 30-50 less dense in resolution
*Remember in most games, almost all of the 'off side' gun is culled away either physically or by the game engine, so additional polys can be spent close up
*because of this you should bake everything in 1/2, 1/4 or even 1/6 or 1/8 if it is a repeating detail (again the silencer.)
*Again - try and keep all your seams hidden from the 'camera'
*lay out your uv space, 0 to 1 - with all the halfs that you want rendered, then get all the other halfs and shink them down ver small and hide them on a few spare pixels in a gap somewhere - then after baking, delete the very low res halfs of the model and flip the mesh - this will avoid seams as the bake will properly interpolate a cylinder.
*Don't dispair about unique details, just create a 512x512 and do a pack of details, this keeps all your detailing/red dot sight/stickers and warning details high res
Awsome model! Keep going fella!
Been busy this month learning how to properly make the LP, making a flawless bake, and the correct way to unwrap where to add seams smoothing groups etc. Here are the results, using a game shader. Now for the hard part, texturing. Some minor things I need to paint out in the normal, but other than that its final. Big thanks to the members on polycount who helped get this asset up to professional quality (especially perna and earthquake). You can find that thread here http://www.polycount.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42 , I highly suggest everyone take a look at it new or experienced. Big thanks to members here as well especially metalliandy, thanks everyone! Good news is now I know what im doing, I know how to fix problems, and I have a workflow for msyefl, I could probably make a decently complex object from HP to LP in a week now at 8 hours a day.
edit: missed the peice of advice devlishands gave regarind the cylinders and bakes, sorry about that ive noted it for next time.
normal + ao
Looking good
Its amazing to see your progress in this thread and its great that you listen to crits. and apply them well.
Nice job..Im proud!
Really awesome bake! Love how its coming out
(Note - Please use the attatchment system provided by eat3d. Its located at the bottom left of the comment box in big white letters that say:
Please use this.)
Thanks!
-Jeremy-
Its easy to do
- Metalliandy
Once again.... Please use the attachment system. Its just more reliable for the forums and allows us to keep the info around just in case the fileshack or (external source) gets deleted or broken.
Thanks.
-Jeremy-
Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. Also I was going to ask if anyone here would be comfortable exchanging contact information with me (e.g. skype steam live messenger etc) I promise I wont be bothersome I will just drop by for feedback from time to time, and I like surrounding myself with a network of 3D artists that are better than me so I can strive to improve.
@Ceribral, I was under the impression you were requesting it I use it for the major beauty shots that might be uploaded to forum spotlight or something of that nature. I will make sure from this point onward I use it for everything, thanks.
The P90 was my go-to gun back in the GoldenEye Days
This is coming along really nice. What a great example of how to receive and implement utilize criticism.
As far as the contact goes, Jaytabor@yahoo.com would probably be the best way to get a hold of me in a timely fashion. My activity on things like skype is pretty low. While characters are more of my thing, but I'm fairly competent and experienced at baking out normal maps and such, so I might be able to help out from time to time
But yea, theres a wealth of so much knowledge between here and that beast of a thread you've got going over at polycount, I would say you could pretty much already consider yourself surrounded.
Keep it up!
Who wants to watch me struggle through my first attempt to texture now?
Anyways I blocked out some simple colors in the diffuse. And I made a game plan for what I think the spec/gloss levels for various materials might be, although I may very well be wrong. I plan on keeping the diffuse pretty plain, and putting the material properties mostly in the specular. My goal for this gun is to have it look brand new right off the factory line, no scuffs or scratches. Some of the block out colors are not quite correct, still working on them.
Man, the anticipation of seeing this thing textured is gonna kill me XD
Keep up the great work!
-Jeremy-
Defining the materials with spec and gloss a bit, any suggestions? Hows it looking? And thanks for the comments ceribral trying to get there.
This is really coming along nicely. You are definately learning alot doing this model.
Can't wait to see how the texturing phase goes.
Really nice!
Really nice!