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WORKSHOP #1 - Ammo Box
March 27, 2012 - 12:54am
- 12159 reads
Hey everyone!
I decided to take a few minutes tonight and set up a small workshop just for the sake of it. I have done a quick high poly model of an ammo box and your objective is to make a low poly version, unrwrap it, bake it, and texture it! Then post your results 
(UPDATE) - An unsmoothed version has been attached in .obj format.
Rules:
Must use high poly provided
Maximum of 1k triangle count
Must have Diffuse, Spec, & Normal Maps
Texture Size must be 1024
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The file is attached below for 3ds max 2011 and 2012.
GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN
Thanks bud.
For Everyone else, I will upload .obj format tonight just in case you are not a max user
-Jeremy-
Nice, I'll give it a try
Great! Texture it however you like. Just make sure to post up an end result
-Jeremy-
OBJ ??
Waiting for the obj....
JuUUm! 
I can't reach 1k triangles!!!!
I've deleted everything I thought useless! I'm about 1.200 tris.
Any idea?!
Thanks!!
Sorry about the OBJ Guys! I have been at work for 2 days and haven't gotten home yet.... Will grab that for you asap!
@Steve_3d : Try deleting back-facing polygons and extending mesh edges. You can rely on normal maps to pick up all of those bevels, so things such as the bolts, should not be modeled in. Hence why I made the angles so accentuated for a better bake
-Jeremy-
I know it! But I think that if I don't make this bolts I won't get a good bake result. What do you think?!
Thank you very much Jeremy!
1000 tris is extremely generous for something like this
Things like the bolts will easily be picked up by the normal map...as a good rule of thumb, if it doesn't add to the silhouette, then it doesn't need to go onto the mesh
I will post something soon!
Cheers for this Jeremy!
Well put Andy.
Looking forward to it
-Jeremy-
.Obj has been added to the main post! Have fun guys
-Jeremy-
So, I am having the same problem as Slave 3d to get the ride of the final 144 tris .... Very frustrating
Edit: already removed all backfaces... I am thinking maybe the top bracklets would be the only solution... Aka Remove them :c
I have taken a few minutes and whipped up a simple yet effective low poly model just to show how much you could condense this. Remember, you are trying to capture the silhouette of the model. Not all of the details, for that is the Normal Map's job
After baking, this would look just like the high poly (With a few minor alterations)
-Jeremy-
I would really like to participate, but I'm having some problems with blender.
At First, the obj importer didn't worked.Then i used the fbx converter from autodesk to convert it to fix and then to collada.The collada file worked fine.The problems that i have are, that i can't untriangulate the mesh and i can't view it in solid mode.
So i would be happy if someone can help me.
I would really like to participate, but I'm having some problems with blender.
At First, the obj importer didn't worked.Then i used the fbx converter from autodesk to convert it to fix and then to collada.The collada file worked fine.The problems that i have are, that i can't untriangulate the mesh and i can't view it in solid mode.
So i would be happy if someone can help me.
Which version of Blender are you using? I'm using the official 2.62 release and it imports perfectly. A few versions ago the the .obj importer was a little flaky, but it's pretty stable now.
i am using the latest (i think) graphical.org release
EDIT:Thank you! The official version works flawless!
i am using the latest (i think) graphical.org release
EDIT:Thank you! The official version works flawless!
No problem
It must have been a bug that crept into the tracker, but I just tested r45259 and it worked ok, so it must be fixed
Well... I have gotten it down to 750 Tris... I think I'll try to reduce it more later but just a quick pass
Hi everyone!
This is my first try! I can detect some errors in the smooth parts, but overall I think it's looking good.
There are two things that worry me:
the first one is, that I don't know how to face the holes in the front part, maybe I could do a mask texture.
And the second one, I just not convinced the bolts in the base.
Thanks for the support!
Great first bake!
What is the Tri count?
Also, the reason it is hard to see the normals is because everything is white (AO Bake only) Give it a trusty light source and good value range. Then you will see those normals pop
Depending on how advanced you would like to go, you can make a bump offset mask in the udk material and fake the holes on the front. Giving it the illusion of depth when you move side to side. Or if you are not doing this in udk, then reduce some of the polygons in other areas so you can put some holes in there.
This is on the right path! Keep it going!
-Jeremy-
Well, I couldn't wait, so I've started the texture. hahaha 
My AmmoBox is inspired in District 9 world, because I've already made a gun inspired in the same idea.
Now I have to add more detail!
Hope you like the idea.
I can not download the obj. When I click on file in your post, it just opens up to some kind of file log.
I can not download the obj. When I click on file in your post, it just opens up to some kind of file log.
Right click the link and go "Save Link As". Hopefully that will work out
*Edit* I have placed each of the .obj and .max files into a .zip... Hopefully this will help those who are unable to download the files.
Great Job Steve! That is coming out nicely
And you got the bake looking good. That is why bevels and large gradation is so important in modeling.
@Andy - Thanks man I really appreciate it!
-Jeremy-
Thanks andy, all is good.
quote: "Hey your bleed 'n, man" ; reply: "I ain't got time to bleed"; reply: "Do you have time to duck"
Well, I couldn't wait, so I've started the texture. hahaha
My AmmoBox is inspired in District 9 world, because I've already made a gun inspired in the same idea.
Now I have to add more detail!
Hope you like the idea.
That looks awesome!I'm so jealous
Can you post the uvs?
@Jeremy - Thank you very much!! I really appreciate that! I decided to do with a 900 triangles model, because I think that if I decrease a lot the triangles I won't get a good result. A goal will be, do the model with less triangles and then bake it
@w333slike - Thank you very much! When you ask for the uvs, you mean textures?
Sounds good. The limit is 1k, so 900 is cool
-Jeremy-
Got it down to 998 tris, after a lot of fiddling on and deleting stuff that wasnt needed, time for my favourite part, unwrapping and baking
@Jeremy - Thank you very much!! I really appreciate that! I decided to do with a 900 triangles model, because I think that if I decrease a lot the triangles I won't get a good result. A goal will be, do the model with less triangles and then bake it
@w333slike - Thank you very much! When you ask for the uvs, you mean textures?
Yes, and the UV Layout, please.Because I'm a beginner and want to know how my UV's should look like.
And for the Low-Poly Version, I am using Blender's Retopology Tools.It's more of a workaround, but works surprisingly good!I'm still at the very beginning, so you will hear from me not very soon.
EDIT:And if someone knows some good High-Poly Modeling Training, please let me know.
Great job Conner Can't wait to see the bakes and textures!
-Jeremy-
This is the kind of thing that would be a good tutorial. I have yet to see a good tutorial that 1. creates the high poly model and defines a good set of rule for the high poly. 2. Then converts the highpoly to low poly and demonstrates what detail should be modeled and what can be baked and lays out the rules for creating the low poly mesh. You hear all the hi poly motion picture guys ranting endlessly about quads, quads, quads, we must all bow down to the quad gods! Then I see these nice highly detailed hi poly models that piss all over the quad god and then are converted lo poly stuff with tri's and ngon's all over the place. It would be nice if someone someplace would set down the rules for both kind of modeling (entertainment hero, and game hi/lo poly) and would what through a complete end to end project so one can learn the proper workflow. The workshop is nice but it still just drops newbies into the pond and leaves it to them to figure out how not to drowned.
This is the kind of thing that would be a good tutorial. I have yet to see a good tutorial that 1. creates the high poly model and defines a good set of rule for the high poly. 2. Then converts the highpoly to low poly and demonstrates what detail should be modeled and what can be baked and lays out the rules for creating the low poly mesh. You hear all the hi poly motion picture guys ranting endlessly about quads, quads, quads, we must all bow down to the quad gods! Then I see these nice highly detailed hi poly models that piss all over the quad god and then are converted lo poly stuff with tri's and ngon's all over the place. It would be nice if someone someplace would set down the rules for both kind of modeling (entertainment hero, and game hi/lo poly) and would what through a complete end to end project so one can learn the proper workflow. The workshop is nice but it still just drops newbies into the pond and leaves it to them to figure out how not to drowned.
Thanks for the comments
It's hard to define a concrete set of rules that people must always stick to, as different situations can often call for different solutions that may not always be perfect or cross compatible. The techniques required for HP modeling are vastly different to LP modeling and baking and each take years to fully master to a point where you have a great understanding of all the practice and theory required to deal with every situation that you may come across. There is so much to take into account with every step in the pipeline, it's very hard to nail down specifics. Baking alone can be extremely frustrating because something is happening that you do not expect or don't know how to fix.
Here are a few of the most common questions I see regarding baking normal maps.
- Why am I getting seams on the normal map?
- How can I fix a skewed bake?
- What is the correct swizzle for X application?
- My bake looks great in Max/xNormal/Maya, but I get smoothing errors in Marmoset/UDK.
- My normal map looks different when baked in Max vs xNormal vs Maya!
- How do I use a cage and what are cages anyway?
- How do smoothing groups affect my bake?
- How do my UVs affect my bake?
- Why am I getting seams when mirroring my normal map
- What is tangent space vs object space?
So you can see that even baking can become extremely complicated, because many of these factors need to be taken into account before you even start a bake and you may need all, of only some of them for X asset. It always depends on the current asset and its specific requirements.
For high poly modelling quads are king, in most respects, when using subd, but some people take it too far. The only reason people use quads is because the deform and subdivide in a very predictable manner, and ngons do not. On a high poly mesh, ngons and (even tris) are perfectly acceptable if they are somewhere that is totally flat and doesn't deform, because the HP mesh is only there to bake details down to the LP and don't really serve any other purpose. It doesn't have to look pretty (though everyone like a clean set of wires) and you can get away with some pretty nasty topology, if it looks good when smoothed. There really isnt much point on getting a super clean topology on a non-deformable, flat part of a mesh, if it's not going to be seen and you can stick an ngon on it in 2 seconds vs 5 mins for all quads. It's just a waste of time.
For a low poly mesh it's always best to use quads, not only because they are faster to work with (selection and modeling etc.) but because they can only be turned into tris in a finite and predictable number of ways. You can get away with ngons too, if they are somewhere that is totally flat, but often it isn't ideal as it's much harder to predict how they will be triangulated.
A baking application or game engine may not triangulate the low poly in the same way, so it's good practice to bake with a triangulated mesh, so you never run the risk of a triangle being flipped the other way in your baked mesh vs the game mesh, and thus can always guarantee that the normal map always matches the low poly perfectly. It's best to have the control before anything like that comes into play.
Well put Andy!
Also, If it is a good training set you want that takes you through all of those steps you mentioned above, we have several amazing training sets here at eat3d that show you just that! So hop to it and get to feeding that brain of yours!
Here is a great dvd to start out on:
http://eat3d.com/pillar
-Jeremy-
This is the kind of thing that would be a good tutorial. I have yet to see a good tutorial that 1. creates the high poly model and defines a good set of rule for the high poly. 2. Then converts the highpoly to low poly and demonstrates what detail should be modeled and what can be baked and lays out the rules for creating the low poly mesh. You hear all the hi poly motion picture guys ranting endlessly about quads, quads, quads, we must all bow down to the quad gods! Then I see these nice highly detailed hi poly models that piss all over the quad god and then are converted lo poly stuff with tri's and ngon's all over the place. It would be nice if someone someplace would set down the rules for both kind of modeling (entertainment hero, and game hi/lo poly) and would what through a complete end to end project so one can learn the proper workflow. The workshop is nice but it still just drops newbies into the pond and leaves it to them to figure out how not to drowned.
Hi,
I dont know, what 3D application you are using, but i recommend you the dozer tutorial on eat3d and The vehicle Modeling Series at blendercookie.
BTW I'm trying to do this Workshop more or less by learning by doing.
Hope I could help you!
@w333slike - These are my textures (Normal and Diffuse map only, at the moment):
The diffuse map has an AO map applied!
You can find a lot of high poly training here, in Eat3D.
If you have any question, ask me!
@w333slike - These are my textures (Normal and Diffuse map only, at the moment):
The diffuse map has an AO map applied!
You can find a lot of high poly training here, in Eat3D.
If you have any question, ask me!
Thanks!
The Problem is, I'm using Blender.
And I don't know, if the vehicle training series from blender cookie would worth it.
Cool assignment, Ceribral! Is there a due date on this if we wanted to participate?
Cool assignment, Ceribral! Is there a due date on this if we wanted to participate?
No due date. This is just for fun:)
lowpoly - got it down to uner 300 - but had some bake issues.
Then I thought, why not just bring it down towards 1000 first (since that is the target given) - then reduce more later.
This lowpoly is 678 tri's
Great! Can't wait to see the bake
Everyone is starting to nail out some good work. Keep it up!
-Jeremy-
Wow this is a cool idea, i think i will join soon.
I mean if people share there workflow a bit more we will all benefit from it. Specially because we're all doing the same thing.
Nice one
@ steve_3d. Your texture looks great but your uv could use some tweaking i think
some pointers
At the moment is has a lot of black spots from the Ao. all these parts are not visible in the engine or by the viewer. You could count this as texture space waste.
Meaning at the moment your texture excises for more then 2/4 out of black and the other part is colored. scaling up your colored parts will give you more real texture space and more space to work So also sharper and better textures.
In an other way.
- 1024 textures are 4 512 textures, at the moment you are using just 2 512 textures for you model.
Hope you get what i mean.
Enjoy
Ok, first pass maps; and an additional cheesy Maya render with some tiling wall panel textures (just a 1 poly plane with normal, diffuse, spec).
@Bertmac - Thank you very much dude! I'll try what you say!
But I hace some doubts, I don't know where is the limit about stitch the uv borders or let it be unstitched. I always get, more or less, these kind of textures because the uv parts of the body don't fit into the texture, and I have to do them smaller.
@caffeineadic - Very good job dude! That is awesome!
Hey steve_3d, You can cut uv at any edge you want. it doesn't need to be one part. it also seems that you could lose a lot of those Poly's...meaning if its black why is it there
@caffeineadic looks cool but i cant look at your model that well its pretty small specially in comparison with that philipk wall panel it steals all the focus of what you really wanna show
Enjoy
Great UV layout and nice bake Caffeineadic!
Could we get a bit closer shot with a tri-count?
@Bertmac - Can't wait to see your entry soon!
-Jeremy-
Finally got it baked down, time for texturing
Great Job! Looks good
What is the tri count?
-Jeremy-
the tri count is 998, wires for anyone who's interested
Great idea, Jeremy!
Promoted!
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