Tri's vs. Quads in LP
I had a quick question for everyone. I know quads are better on the eyes and easier to read for most people, but will I get a job in the industry if I create my LP in tris? I find it a lot easier to optimize if I'm not worrying about quading everything. I'm working on a low poly assault rifle right now and I'm getting a lot of feedback from fellow students at school about needing it to be in quads. I'm curious what some people in the industry think about tri's on a 'hero' level FPS (around 5k - and is that even close to the standard?) assault rifle. They've said it's easier to UV in quads, but it's only taken me about 4 hrs and I'm finished. Granted I'm not the best UV'er and I'm still learning, but the modeling has taken a lot longer than that.
The concept is from another tut's web-site (I hope that's not a problem!) but that was only the high-res version. I'm working blind on the low-res.
I value the input I read on Eat3D and any input given would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you,
Tony.
Thanks CAR3ON for the input, that is good info to know. I wonder if 5k is a bit high than? I had a CoD type game in mind for this weapon. Do you know if that was the hero model or a LOD version?
Thanks,
Tony.
Interesting question!
There is no simple answer for this but often it better to work with quads as it's easier to model with them and the meshes look cleaner, but when in game, all meshes are automatically converted to triangles anyway which can cause issues if the triangulation is different to what you were expecting.
Generally its better to convert you meshes into triangles manually so you have the control as to how they are triangulated and then bake your maps so you know that the normal map will match the geometry on the asset 100% (You cant do this with quads unless the same triangulation algorithm is used bu the application/engine)
Now after saying all that, the number you really should be paying attention too is the vert. count as they can grow at a pretty fast rate if you don't keep track of them...Triangles are only used as a guide and are really not very accurate as a gauge for performance.
But yea, 5k tris really isnt that much for a first person gun in modern games, so I wouldn't worry too much...as long as you are not wasting the geo, you should be fine 
I am with Andy on this one.Golden rule you only model with quads it's easy to read,easy to UV and you get nice bakes.When you import the mesh to the engine it does its triangulation it is called tessellation.SO let the engine do it's thing all we as modellers has to do make it easy the for the engine to turn the quad in to a tri that's all.Always Always Always Always Always model with quad it is good practise period.
Metalliandy,
Thanks for the input! It's been pounded into our heads that quads are best and I understand why for smoothing and creating edge loops. I guess this was more of an experiment from a few images I've seen online. I created this low poly version with the Create Poly Tool in Maya. I only placed a vert where there was a silhouette change and left all the flat faces as N-gons until the end. After that I created a few of the triangles myself, to make sure they were heading in a way that made sense, and then I hit the triangulate button. I'm going to finish this piece out and then I'll stick with quads from now on.
I've attached an image of the low poly with a normal and occlusion map. It still has a few errors, but over all looks nice. I used xnormal for my bakes and it was really fast! I have a few seam issues that I didn't have using Maya's transfer maps, but I'll have to figure that out later. Also, if you don't mind: how do you keep your UV's organized with something that is complex? A teacher I had said they would rather see more seams and less skewing so I've got a lot of UV border edges. Does this look awful?
If I'm going to paint this in something like Mari or Zbrush, this should work fine, right? But what about handing this off to a texture artist.. is this a nightmare?!
Again thanks for your input.
Tony.
Thanks sandun2000. I'll stick with quads from here on out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Andy was saying triangulate it on your own, so you know how your bakes will turn out; which is what I've heard too.
Thanks,
Tony.
Those UVs look fine, thought they could do with a little more space between the UV islands. On a 2k map you prob want somewhere between 8 and 16px gap between each island, which will stop mip errors etc. 
You want to keep as much as you can as single smoothing groups and break the UV's in UV space wherever there is a smoothing group border in 3d space. This should stop some of the seams that you might be getting. Also, did you use a cage in xNormal? That could be the reason that you are getting seams as without a cage xNormal uses a uniform ray distance which doesnt play well with smoothing groups and will cause seams at the edges where the rays are missed.
In regards to the tris in the game engine...All meshes are rendered as triangles and this is before tessellation. Even if you export the mesh as quads, the engine with triangulate the mesh for you, which is why its a good idea that you triangulate it yourself before you bake and export, because the engine might triangulate the mesh with a different method and therefore the geometry that you baked with might not necessarily match the mesh when its in the game engine and as a result the normal map might be wrong. Sometimes this isn't noticeable, but on other occasions it is, so it's good practice to always triangulate before baking and exporting....at least then you have 100% control 
As for the quads, its good to model in quads because its cleaner and most modeling tools require quads for maximum effectiveness, but in reality quads are a lie. It's all tris (even in Max) even if its displayed as quads/ngons 
Andy,
Again thank you for the info, this is awesome!
Is the term Smoothing group a Max thing? I haven’t really heard it on the Maya side at all, but I’ve watched a few Max tut’s here and it comes up a lot. Does it have to do with your normals? If so, I have a script that smooth’s all my normals and hardens my UV border edges, after I lay them out. I know that’s backwards from what you just said (if I understand you correctly) but it should accomplish the same task. I’ve read that is the best option for baking and rendering game assets.
Also, no I did not use a cage in xnormal. I’ll Google how to export the cage Maya gives me from the Transfer maps… I’m sure it’s possible. I assume that cage should work fine.
Thanks,
Tony.
Smoothing groups are the same thing as hard edges, though rather than marking the edges as hard, you mark the faces instead. The script sounds great, so its good that you are already using it. 
Thank you Andy. I think you answered all the questions I had about tri's vs. quads so I'll start a new post under WIPS to post pics of my progress.
Thanks again,
Tony.










i got my hands on some of call of duty MW3 weapon models and it was almost only tris and no quad for example G36 in CoD has only 3861 tris
hope this help you