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Jacobethan Style Fountain WIP
February 19, 2010 - 6:41am
- 21821 reads
Hey all,
Here is a fountain that i have been working on over the past week or so.
Its about 90% done modelling wise as i have still got to add some new pieces and refine what i have currently before i start to sculpt it (the triangular pieces on the arches need to be scaled as do the small pillars that connect the arch to the top middle trim).
Im definitely going to add more things like water spouts etc., along with some larger detail work on the Middle-Top part, but i wanted to get the whole basic shape done before i start focusing on small details.
Also im thinking about making a vaulted ceiling for the inside, which i think will look rather awesome.
Any comments and critique would be great 
Thanks for looking!
Great work mate. This could just be a personal thing I like, but I would exaggerate some of the proportions more, especially if its for a game. I would take the base and make it a little bigger to separate it more from the mid section, and hopefully create a better silhouette. I think the main thing this piece needs is a better silhouette. Take this into photoshop and make the entire fountain black to see what I mean, then think of interesting shapes to break that up and then fill it in.
no critique for now. I really like where you're going with this.
Looks way better then mine.
Nice work !! I like this piece a lot, its very ornate. I think something that could add to it is possibly adding some form of vegetation, i was thinking maybe vines or even adding as a post effect after rendering composite in some weather condition to surround it. I dont know why but when I see this even though its just a AO render I think of it being covered in spec of snow with really cool temperature color tones on it. Anyways, Great work again man I cant wait to see it textured :)
very nice.I think it s cool
Thanks for all the comments guys!
@Riki,
I was tinkering with the idea of creating a separate, larger base section, which could give the piece a more distinctive silhouette, so that is prob. next on the list
What do you guys think?
@Slip
I may add some ivy later...might be worth a try eh?
Right onto the juicy bit!
I made the vaulted ceiling and added some curved bricks that run across its edges, which will have some detail work sculpted on them later...i was also thinking about making a more decorative centre piece to give it all a little more focus.
Still wip but worth some crit i think
Thanks for looking!
very good
Thanks VGS :)
I am loving this Andy
Perhaps, off-setting the bricks at the base would help them look better in the Normal map. Are you going to be sculpting onto this? I do hope so. Keep up the great work
-Jeremy-
That looks awesome! I think I saw this on PC? and saw the original photo you had based this off. I really like what you have done, can't wait for more updates!
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the comments
@Jeremy
Do you mean the lowest row of bricks with the drain or the ones that are stacked?
I definitely going to sculpt this...it would be a crime not if i didnt 
@JackyBoy
yea this is the same model that is on PC :)
Im working on it now so i will update as soon as i can
Thanks too MeTALLEANDV
nice update bro,like your modeling:)
Hey guys,
Thanks Jassi.maac!
Here is another update
I have started blocking out the base, refined the arch top pieces, added some diamonds to the crowns and changed the profile of pillar bottoms.
Im started to get stoked at the prospect of sculpting this now...its going be sweet!
Comments and Crits. would be great!
Hey guys,
Im trying to get some good looking wire shots for you but am having trouble getting anything that looks halfway decent.
Im currently taking a screenie in ZBrush and then desaturating and adding a levels in PS but unless i use a HUGE image everything is really blurry.
I guess i will have to break it all down into smaller sections and then do a composite later...that or export it again with no Subd active.
If anyone knows of a great way to get some good wire shots in Zbrush that would be awesome!
Anyways...Here is another update!
I have added some spouts above the fountain bowls and added a spire to finish up the top...though you cant see it in the render very well, so for the moment i give you Generic Default ZBrush Material Screenie™!
Im considering making the centre section a huge bowl rather than having it flat like it is currently...what do you guys think?
Any comments and crits would be sweet!
I like the idea of making the center a big bowl.
Hey guys,
I think this will prob. be the last update before i start sculpting (unless a show stopper crops its ugly head )
I have added the large centre bowl, along with some outlets that connect to the spouts and have gone through all the bricks and trim sections and tried to add a little irregularity by spacing them out a little more, rotating them and generally moving them around a bit so that they are not just perfectly uniform anymore...hopefully this will make the normal and AO maps read much better
I think its already had quite a good effect so far ^^
Any comments and Critique are most welcome!
Sorry to be a partypooper 
I was wondering how the bowl is gonna look? I'm not sure if it fits the style, but maybe you can make a cool mosaïc in it?
In the top part, the archs look a bit sharp, where it starts to go inward.
The adjusted spacing does make it look better, more 'chaotic' sort of. But to be honest I'm not a fan of the 2 vertical spacings above each other.
See picture for clarification
http://www.rmr-online.nl/Overig/JacobethanFountain_remarks.jpg
Thanks for the crit. Rob
Well spotted with the Arch and the aligning bricks...i will get them sorted tomorrow
I was thinking of putting water in the bowl but im not 100% yet. What do you think?
Thanks for the crit. Rob
Well spotted with the Arch and the aligning bricks...i will get them sorted tomorrow
I was thinking of putting water in the bowl but im not 100% yet. What do you think?
I say go for it
hey whats up man, progress is looking amazing. So in terms of the sculpt are you going for a weathered look or just doing a lot of stencil work and trying to keep the grunge very subtle ? I feel like this would be a cool way to just take advantage of the new noise features in 3.5 especially on those bricks. Keep up the great work man its looking very epic :)
oh one more thing haha what AO settings do you use within maya when rendering yours ? I have my own personal set up but I like the results that you achieve with your renders.
Hey guys,
@Kaze
I might just do it!
@Slipmaggot,
Im definitely going to go for some weathering but am going to add quite a bit of stencil work also.......as you said the said the noise features in ZB are sweet and will play a big part in the sculpting i think...its insane what you can do with ZB now.
All the renders you see are in Octane and its all modelled in Blender 2.49b 64bit so i cant really help you with maya mate...sorry :S
Hey guys,
Update time!
Here is what i have been doing in my cave since my last post.
There is still much to do but i think the sculpting is off to a good start.
Any comments and crits. would be great
perhaps you could chip away more damage on the pillars.
I love the look of it all, looks really nice! The only thing I would say is in the top image, the bottom left "brick wall" the corners look very sharp still, but apart from that all looks very good.
(don't wanna go OT, just quick answer's or maybe a link but...) How did you do the floral pattern in that rectangle thing (please don't say all by hand because that will crush my soul ) I assume you use projection master? but every time I use it it comes out like 5 metres instead of being flush and ruins it!
Thanks for the comment mate!
The pillars are not shown very well in that picture so here are some larger ones...I think everything needs a little touch up though
Yeah they do look really nice. Something else I always think about with something like this is where rain gets to it a lot. On the bits towards the bottom where it sticks out, if there is a chip in there then rain would tend to run though that alot more, so over time would where away parts directly below it too because more water would pass across it...Just something else to think about.
Looking awesome though!
Thanks for the comments mate
You have a point there...i will do a detail pass soon!
I love the look of it all, looks really nice! The only thing I would say is in the top image, the bottom left "brick wall" the corners look very sharp still, but apart from that all looks very good.
(don't wanna go OT, just quick answer's or maybe a link but...) How did you do the floral pattern in that rectangle thing (please don't say all by hand because that will crush my soul ) I assume you use projection master? but every time I use it it comes out like 5 metres instead of being flush and ruins it!
I totally missed this post :P...Thanks for the comments
The corners of the bricks are hidden by the pillars so you would never see them..thus i didn't want to waste time sculpting stuff when it wasn't needed anyway...There is plenty to sculpt already!
The Floral pattern was made using projection master, but it was on a really low setting...1 or 2 with a focal shift of around -65 ish.
Riki goes over some really awesome techniques to get relief like this, in the fountain part 1...you should check it out mate!
Hey guys,
Still some clean up required on these but man i love the Formbrush...makes this kind of stuff must faster
I am def loving this piece a lot, in terms of the decay you are adding to it i would stay on the route that you are on and keep it minimal, it is a beautiful piece of architecture and damaging it a ton would really in my opinion destroy the composition of the structure. I would try to bring out that finer detail in the alpha a bit on a different zbrush layer too. I like that you are pulling out the larger detail but its feels like the fine is almost not even going to really pop when you export your normal maps. I would def recommend using x-normal also when you are finish with all of your sculpting. I am finding that zbrush normal maps are crap compared to the flexibility you get with xnormal. Also if you really want those fine details to show up well in your diffuse what i like to do is take the rgb info from the normal map and use blend modes to overlay those on your diffuse, its sorta like baking the normal map into the diffuse. Also if you do go down the x-normal route thier is a cool trick with the convexity map that you can use by taking that blue channel and overlaying it over the ao map it gives you, REALLY makes a better ao map. Sorry for the rant i just like this piece A LOT and want to give as much feedback so that it comes out looking amazing but you area already doing an amazing job keep it up cant wait to see this bad boy finished.
Normal bake to diffuse blend modes:
Red channel: overlay
green channel: soft light
blue channel: multiply
-Slip
I think you should still add some cracks for some of the smaller details. perhaps you could use a concrete alpha with a Zsub between 1-8.
I am def loving this piece a lot, in terms of the decay you are adding to it i would stay on the route that you are on and keep it minimal, it is a beautiful piece of architecture and damaging it a ton would really in my opinion destroy the composition of the structure. I would try to bring out that finer detail in the alpha a bit on a different zbrush layer too. I like that you are pulling out the larger detail but its feels like the fine is almost not even going to really pop when you export your normal maps. I would def recommend using x-normal also when you are finish with all of your sculpting. I am finding that zbrush normal maps are crap compared to the flexibility you get with xnormal. Also if you really want those fine details to show up well in your diffuse what i like to do is take the rgb info from the normal map and use blend modes to overlay those on your diffuse, its sorta like baking the normal map into the diffuse. Also if you do go down the x-normal route thier is a cool trick with the convexity map that you can use by taking that blue channel and overlaying it over the ao map it gives you, REALLY makes a better ao map. Sorry for the rant i just like this piece A LOT and want to give as much feedback so that it comes out looking amazing but you area already doing an amazing job keep it up cant wait to see this bad boy finished.
Normal bake to diffuse blend modes:
Red channel: overlay
green channel: soft light
blue channel: multiply
-Slip
Hey slipmaggot75, that's a great technique. Someone should write this down or make a Photoshop action for it. I just tried it with one of my old textures and it totally added more depth to my diffuse. I'm not trying to start an argument but FYI, I went to a Naughty Dog session at GDC 10 and they talked about how they use Zbrush & Xnormal for their AO and normal maps.
Hey guys,
Thanks for the comments!
I will definitely be using xNormal for this as personally i have not found a good workflow for normals in ZB since they got rid of ZMapper (
), but before that i will prob. end up redoing all the details later as this is more of a practice pass to get a good workflow...i will prob end up really honing the details with the standard brush to get them really crisp :)
Personally, i don't really like adding really fine details in ZBrush for a few reasons:-
- If you add too much detail, its wasted time and its a pain to reload ZB, hide the layers, re-decimate, re-export, import into Blender, re-align it with the LP..etc.etc. ...Unless there is a major show stopper, i would rather do this just once if i can
- Im not sure what resolution texture im going to have yet and since there is a finite amount of pixels in any one texture, i don't want to add excessive detail and make the normal map noisy...This boils down to me being burnt before in that regard as i have done models in the past that have been too detailed.
- Its more flexible in regards of strength and actual detail, to add them later in Photoshop.
- CrazyBump is awesome.
- CrazyBump is AWESOME.
I have a half written article on some of this stuff that i will finish soon...once its done i will make sure you guys know about it
As for the normal blend tip...nice one Slip!
I have made a action for this and will PM you the link...if you are happy with it, i will find a more permanent home for it later
Thanks again guys
Hey guys,
Just a quick update.
I have tried to make the whole thing pop a little more, though in some parts i think the overall effect may be a tad too strong...i will take look with fresh eyes tomorrow.
Crit on this would be awesome
Hey guys,
Thanks for the comments!
I will definitely be using xNormal for this as personally i have not found a good workflow for normals in ZB since they got rid of ZMapper (), but before that i will prob. end up redoing all the details later as this is more of a practice pass to get a good workflow...i will prob end up really honing the details with the standard brush to get them really crisp :)
Personally, i don't really like adding really fine details in ZBrush for a few reasons:-
- If you add too much detail, its wasted time and its a pain to reload ZB, hide the layers, re-decimate, re-export, import into Blender, re-align it with the LP..etc.etc. ...Unless there is a major show stopper, i would rather do this just once if i can
- Im not sure what resolution texture im going to have yet and since there is a finite amount of pixels in any one texture, i don't want to add excessive detail and make the normal map noisy...This boils down to me being burnt before in that regard as i have done models in the past that have been too detailed.
- Its more flexible in regards of strength and actual detail, to add them later in Photoshop.
- CrazyBump is awesome.
- CrazyBump is AWESOME.
I have a half written article on some of this stuff that i will finish soon...once its done i will make sure you guys know about it
As for the normal blend tip...nice one Slip!
I have made a action for this and will PM you the link...if you are happy with it, i will find a more permanent home for it later
Thanks again guys
I could use that Photoshop action myself, could you send it my way as well.
I also think you should chip away some of the floral pattern as well because it looks a bit too perfect.
Thanks for the comment kase!
Once im happy with the look of the details i will definitely add some wear 
I will PM you the link to the action asap
Hey guys,
Just a small update for the moment 
I have applied the same treatment to the main front plaque as i did to the corner plaque so it reads a little better.
I also did a quick normal bake onto some simple geometry just to make sure i was getting the results i wanted and so far i think im on the right track.
Each HP mesh was decimated in ZBrush to 150k and then baked in xNormal onto a massive total of 16 tris. ^^ and then rendered in Marmoset.
I have to admit...im pretty stocked with the result 
C+C would be great
Really Great job Andy! Those are some really nice normal maps
-Jeremy-
Thanks mate
I did a few more tests with in UDK and the map still holds up well even when using a high LODBias, so i think after some minor touch-ups im going to call these pieces done
I should be starting the LP over the next few days, which is going to be awesome
Sounds Great bud! I can't wait to see this thing textured
-Jeremy-
I'm shocked too; now those are some good normals. When your done with your normal bakes, put all the pieces together and post it.
I only have a few pieces left to sculpt now so i can start on the LP over the next few days.
have no fear...when there are gifts of screenies, they will be here mate
Haha That is awesome bro. I know it is gonna turn out really awesome in the end.
-Jeremy-
wow that is a damn good normal map! well done! Can you possibly post a screen of the wireframe and also of the lighting set up if you get a chance? I know it's prob really simple but mine always looks shocking...
But yeah, keep them screens a comin!
wow that is a damn good normal map! well done! Can you possibly post a screen of the wireframe and also of the lighting set up if you get a chance? I know it's prob really simple but mine always looks shocking...
But yeah, keep them screens a comin!
Sure thing mate...Do you mean in Marmoset or xNormal?
aaah, didn't actually notice that it was in marmoset, but still mine didn't look the best in there! If you get a chance could you give a screenshot of settings or the HDRI you are using? and a wireframe too
Only if you get a chance though, no bigee
Here you go mate.
I didn't do anything special really...i guess the geometry really lends itself to baking.
The LP is just in front of the HP with the ray distance set to 0.5 and that's about it im afraid...no magic tricks or anything (im saving that for later )
I also bake at double res for AA, resize in Photoshop, add an unsharp mask at around 40-60 (sometimes a little more if needed) and then do a levels on each channel if needed also (this time it didn't)
Also Baking the normal as Object Space (aka Local or Model Space) can be really helpful, as though they are more popular, Tangent Space maps can get many shading errors from which Object Space maps are immune due to the fact that they ignore the smoothing of the LP vertex normals upon their creation (no nasty gradients )...From an artists point of view this can save many hours of headaches
They are also cheaper to use than Tangent Space, but the cost difference is negligible really.
The down sides are that its hard to overlay detail normals. edit the maps by hand and its hard to mirror them in game.
As far as lighting, everything is stock as its set up by default in Marmoset...the only difference is that i turned of Bloom and moved the light to give a better angle.
Anyways...here are the settings and the wire overlay
Thanks for doing that, I really appreciate it! The detail in those bakes are really outstanding! but I suppose the res all helps with that. But still an amazing job. I shall load up Marmoset tomorrow and give it another go, see how my models look.
Thanks again
nice detailed work dear,waiting for updates:)
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